Comments on News on the Portland to Portland Green Test Drive: Portland to Portland Green Test Drive. What we di...

Recently we had a Jetta TDI advocate restart an ol...

2009-12-22T15:53:57.759-08:00

Recently we had a Jetta TDI advocate restart an old thread "2009 VW Jetta TDI Emissions Results In!" over at PriusChat. So we picked up the 2010 Prius, California Air Resources Board (CARB) executive order A-014-0657, to compare to the 2009 Jetta TDI executive order A-007-0271:

Jetta TDI :: 2010 Prius :: field
0.090 g/mi :: 0.010 g/mi :: NMOG or NMHC STD, UL
0.400 g/mi :: 0.040 g/mi :: CO, UL
0.050 g/mi :: 0.003 g/mi :: NOx, UL
0.030 g/mi :: 0.002 g/mi :: Hwy NOx, UL
$50 each :: $00 each :: CARB fine per vehicle

We found the TDI vehicles have at least 9 times the emissions per mile than the 2010 Prius. Apparently the diesels have larger, allowable emissions standards to meet than the Prius. The fine relates to some diagnostic capability that is needed.

So if the Jetta TDI is "clean," then the 2010 Prius must seem "immaculate."

We also checked with the EPA web site for user reported mileage:

Jetta TDI :: 2010 Prius
40.0 MPG (27 vehicles) :: 50.3 MPG (64 vehicles)

The results seem instructive.

Bob Wilson, Huntsville, AL

Fuel prices are a moving target, too. I just paid ...

2009-05-27T06:48:30.008-07:00

Fuel prices are a moving target, too. I just paid $2.12 a gallon for diesel three days ago (in my 2005 Passat TDI sedan), and regular gas was $2.19. Prices change. My running mileage for the month is 40.9 MPG, by the way.

Ed, as we said before, you cannot compare somethin...

2009-04-04T02:28:00.000-07:00

Ed, as we said before, you cannot compare something with less option with something with more options. You may as well then compare the Jetta with the Yaris (diesel) and it will lose, but hey, they are both manual and both diesels. :)

To compare they have to have the same equipment: doing so the Jetta loses (again).

> Currently, The TDI has the lowest emmissions of any DIESEL

Currently camel lights have the lowest tar and nicotine rating, but smoking is bad for you.

Same for diesels: a diesel wil NEVER be as clean as e gas engine, even non hybrids.

Diesel is BAD for the environment. Green diesels = healthy cigarette.

> The TDI can also run on alternative fuels which totally changes the emissions profile.
1) it does NOT change the emissions profile - it still emits Co2 and acid rain.
2) So can the prius run on alcohol. Where is your point?

The discussion: Where is your point? Overjoicing that the Jetta did 2% better than the Prius, but diesel is 4% more expensive, diesel emits 10% more Co2 and 300% more acid rain? WOW.......

Why don't you tell future Jetta owners that every 60.000 miles they have to change the timing belt and that operation costs 1200$?

Oh, the Prius has an everlasting chain. +1.

Tramp, as you know - since you were part of the co...

2009-04-03T21:12:00.000-07:00

Tramp, as you know - since you were part of the conversation, we went over the whole price thing over at Prius Chat and, the facts are, that "who wins on price" depends on what options you ADD to the BASE models of both vehicles. As a BASE model to BASE model comparison, the TDI is less expensive. Prius fans argue for a different basis of comparison and options which is certainly their right. Depending on what options you throw in determines the outcome. The pricing is very close within a thousand either direction.

Currently, The TDI has the lowest emmissions of any DIESEL and the next generation will be in BIN 2/ TIER 5 SULEV standards. The TDI can also run on alternative fuels which totally changes the emissions profile.

But you already know all this because you talked about it with me over at Prius Chat.

Thanks again for your comments and let's continue the discussion.

It lost the price comparison test.It lost the clea...

2009-04-03T16:02:00.000-07:00

It lost the price comparison test.
It lost the clean emission test.
It lost the MP$ test.
It lost the dB test.

Me think VW failed on this achievement. :-D

Thank you for your comments. @markderail. We tal...

2009-04-03T09:44:00.000-07:00

Thank you for your comments. @markderail. We talked the price comparison thing and some of the other issues through pretty completely over at Prius Chat.

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/58828-internet-poll-prius-vs-jetta-11.html#post819150

This was not a price comparison test.

How about posting MRSP $ of the Jetta and the G2 P...

2009-04-03T08:54:00.000-07:00

How about posting MRSP $ of the Jetta and the G2 Prius you drove?

IOW, the Jetta is more expensive, in an Apple-to-Apples comparison.

Also, is comparing a manual Jetta to the Prius fair?

I bet the automatic Jetta to be 15% or higher less efficient than a manual transmission.

Another issue is Nitrogen Oxide:(From Wikipedia)He...

2009-04-03T05:45:00.000-07:00

Another issue is Nitrogen Oxide:

(From Wikipedia)

Health effects
NOx react with ammonia, moisture, and other compounds to form nitric acid vapor and related particles. Small particles can penetrate deeply into sensitive lung tissue and damage it, causing premature death in extreme cases. Inhalation of such particles may cause or worsen respiratory diseases such as emphysema, bronchitis it may also aggravate existing heart disease.[4]

NOx react with volatile organic compounds in the presence of heat and sunlight to form Ozone. Ozone can cause adverse effects such as damage to lung tissue and reduction in lung function mostly in susceptible populations (children, elderly, asthmatics). Ozone can be transported by wind currents and cause health impacts far from the original sources. Millions of Americans live in areas that do not meet the health standards for ozone.

NOx also readily react with common organic chemicals, and even ozone, to form a wide variety of toxic products: nitroarenes, nitrosamines and also the nitrate radical some of which may cause biological mutations.

As discussed above, atmospheric NOx eventually forms nitric acid, which contributes to acid rain.[6] NOx emissions are regulated in the United States by the Environmental Protection Agency, and in the UK by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to the department of environment, the Jetta releases in the athmosphere 0.031 grams per kilometer. The Prius, 0.010 grams per kilometer.

Even if the quantities are tiny, the Prius still emits three times less than the Jetta.

Yet another Hooray for the Prius! ;)

Ok, I see you corrected the value to 41.4 MPG for ...

2009-04-03T04:40:00.000-07:00

Ok, I see you corrected the value to 41.4 MPG for the Jetta against 40.96 MPG for the CleanER Prius.

((41.4/40.96)/41.4)*100 = 2.4% better

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp
Average diesel = 222.1, average regular = 204.6
((222.1/204.6)/222.1)*100 = 4.9% more expensive.

Therefore the Prius IS cheaper to run!
Proof:
7000 miles / 41.40 * 2.221$ = $375.53 of diesel.
7000 miles / 40.96 * 2.046$ = $349.65 of regular.

Regarding clealiness, it gets worse:
http://www.epa.gov/OMS/climate/420f05001.htm

CO2 emissions from a gallon of gasoline = 2,421 grams x 0.99 x (44/12) = 8,788 grams = 8.8 kg/gallon = 19.4 pounds/gallon

CO2 emissions from a gallon of diesel = 2,778 grams x 0.99 x (44/12) = 10,084 grams = 10.1 kg/gallon = 22.2 pounds/gallon

Therefore:
7000 miles / 41.40 * 22.2 = 3754 lb of Co2.
7000 miles / 40.96 * 19.4 = 3315 lb of Co2.

So, Who's cleaner, and cheaper?

(you are not going to correct the values - again?)

I hit the publish button too soon earlier today. ...

2009-04-02T18:09:00.000-07:00

I hit the publish button too soon earlier today. I looked at the stats again and they are closer to what you show. Take another look and thanks again for your comments.

I find that figure very hard to believe. As you ca...

2009-04-02T16:32:00.000-07:00

I find that figure very hard to believe.

As you can read here ( http://priuschat.com/forums/fuel-economy/47370-top-speed-mileage.html ) I took my car on a racing spree in Germany (where there are no speed limits) and kept an average of 94 MPH doing 33.6 MPG.

You may have driven hard but I doubt it you went as hard as I did: in USA I know the cops are very severe with speeding.

If the guy that drove the car is the same as the dude that started it I'm sure he did not know how to unlock the handbrake. :-D

By the way, I had a Jetta TDI before the prius therefore I know the the Jetta TDI drinks more on the motorway than the Prius: 27,8 MPG Vs 33,6 at 100 MPH on the clock.