
The Green Human team drove a 2009 Clean Burning Diesel Jetta and a 2008 Toyota Hybrid across the country almost 8,000 through a wide variety of terrain and conditions from Portland, Maine to Portland, Oregon via the Eastern seaboard, Florida and Colorado.
Our goal was not to repeat previous tests, nor to challenge previous results. There are already lots of reviews and stats on each vehicle which anyone with an internet connection and enough time on their hands can read and use to support their own conclusions. We chose instead to do an “experiential” experiment where our objective was to intensively drive and experience the cars in a real world environment traveling a significant distance over a relatively short time.
For those of you solely fixated on stats, the MPG part of this was that the CBTDI Jetta acheived an average of 41.4 MPG against the Prius 40.96 MPG (corrected).
Honestly, this isn't great mileage for EITHER vehicle, I usually get a good 44- 48 MPG on my '06 TDI that I drive here in the Northwest (combo city/highway) and I won't even start on the Prius stats I'm sure the good folks over at 'PriusChat' can (and probably will) throw at me. But they are what they are - and we promised transparancy. Remember, we drove these cars HARD like real people - not like a bunch of hyper-milers or MPG gauge watchers. The journey inherently contained a lot of highway mileage - we typically drove at or over the speed limit (like real people do) and while we did switch drivers on a fair and regular interval - we drove both cars with a heavy foot.
For us, this challenge wasn’t about mileage – as we said, the internet is filled with that stuff – for us the real “test” in our case, was a (Green) Human one. Traveling 8,000 miles in a few short weeks amounting to a lot of driving and gave our testers the chance to really get to know each vehicle. The challenge was about cars and PEOPLE.
Speaking only for myself, I personally liked the Prius more than I thought I would. It was extremely quiet, and performed better than I expected. I went through the whole “Jetta versus Prius” thing a couple of years ago when I was shopping for a new car (yes, I ended up buying an 06 Jetta TDI but that was after LOTS of visits to different dealers and even more research and deliberation). One reason at the time was the feeling that the Prius had somewhat of an “anti-car” along the lines of “we know you think cars and pollution are bad so we designed one you can hate less” versus the Jetta’s “we know you love to drive so here’s one more reason you can feel good about doing it”. I think in the interceding years the Prius has evolved and become more “driver friendly” although for pure highway driving, and focusing only on the driving experience and not things like mileage, at the end of it all I still felt the Jetta offering more "driving enjoyment and fun" on this trip.
The other team members had their own opinions which they will share in their posts.
Remember, these are just our OPINIONS and anyone seeking a “greener” vehicle should FIND OUT FOR THEMSELVES by getting behind the wheel of BOTH cars and seeing what they personally like best. “Clean burning diesels” and “Hybrids” are both moving targets and while Toyota and VW are both leaders, other manufacturers are also thankfully continuing to push that envelope gaining lower pollution levels and better fuel economy with each generation. There’s a place at the table for BOTH technologies.
Until now, Hybrids have been about the ONLY (50 State) answer to get better mileage out of light duty passenger vehicles, not even considering that a great portion of the vehicles out there are diesel because they need to be diesel to do what they do (haul freight or whatever). So gaining fuel economy and cleaner burning emissions with diesel undisputedly has a place at the table, and the new clean burning TDI Jetta is a fantastic evolution of that line of technology. And Biodiesel, whether from waste or feedstock represents another option that, over time as it develops, can play a significant role in our overall goal of lessening our dependence of foreign fossil fuel.
That's my view - but this is an interactive challenge and of course I'm very interested in anyone's reactions to this. Thanks again to everyone who helped us out and showed us kindness along the way. This was a great event that we were proud to be a part of.
13 comments:
I find that figure very hard to believe.
As you can read here ( http://priuschat.com/forums/fuel-economy/47370-top-speed-mileage.html ) I took my car on a racing spree in Germany (where there are no speed limits) and kept an average of 94 MPH doing 33.6 MPG.
You may have driven hard but I doubt it you went as hard as I did: in USA I know the cops are very severe with speeding.
If the guy that drove the car is the same as the dude that started it I'm sure he did not know how to unlock the handbrake. :-D
By the way, I had a Jetta TDI before the prius therefore I know the the Jetta TDI drinks more on the motorway than the Prius: 27,8 MPG Vs 33,6 at 100 MPH on the clock.
I hit the publish button too soon earlier today. I looked at the stats again and they are closer to what you show. Take another look and thanks again for your comments.
Ok, I see you corrected the value to 41.4 MPG for the Jetta against 40.96 MPG for the CleanER Prius.
((41.4/40.96)/41.4)*100 = 2.4% better
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp
Average diesel = 222.1, average regular = 204.6
((222.1/204.6)/222.1)*100 = 4.9% more expensive.
Therefore the Prius IS cheaper to run!
Proof:
7000 miles / 41.40 * 2.221$ = $375.53 of diesel.
7000 miles / 40.96 * 2.046$ = $349.65 of regular.
Regarding clealiness, it gets worse:
http://www.epa.gov/OMS/climate/420f05001.htm
CO2 emissions from a gallon of gasoline = 2,421 grams x 0.99 x (44/12) = 8,788 grams = 8.8 kg/gallon = 19.4 pounds/gallon
CO2 emissions from a gallon of diesel = 2,778 grams x 0.99 x (44/12) = 10,084 grams = 10.1 kg/gallon = 22.2 pounds/gallon
Therefore:
7000 miles / 41.40 * 22.2 = 3754 lb of Co2.
7000 miles / 40.96 * 19.4 = 3315 lb of Co2.
So, Who's cleaner, and cheaper?
(you are not going to correct the values - again?)
Another issue is Nitrogen Oxide:
(From Wikipedia)
Health effects
NOx react with ammonia, moisture, and other compounds to form nitric acid vapor and related particles. Small particles can penetrate deeply into sensitive lung tissue and damage it, causing premature death in extreme cases. Inhalation of such particles may cause or worsen respiratory diseases such as emphysema, bronchitis it may also aggravate existing heart disease.[4]
NOx react with volatile organic compounds in the presence of heat and sunlight to form Ozone. Ozone can cause adverse effects such as damage to lung tissue and reduction in lung function mostly in susceptible populations (children, elderly, asthmatics). Ozone can be transported by wind currents and cause health impacts far from the original sources. Millions of Americans live in areas that do not meet the health standards for ozone.
NOx also readily react with common organic chemicals, and even ozone, to form a wide variety of toxic products: nitroarenes, nitrosamines and also the nitrate radical some of which may cause biological mutations.
As discussed above, atmospheric NOx eventually forms nitric acid, which contributes to acid rain.[6] NOx emissions are regulated in the United States by the Environmental Protection Agency, and in the UK by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.
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According to the department of environment, the Jetta releases in the athmosphere 0.031 grams per kilometer. The Prius, 0.010 grams per kilometer.
Even if the quantities are tiny, the Prius still emits three times less than the Jetta.
Yet another Hooray for the Prius! ;)
How about posting MRSP $ of the Jetta and the G2 Prius you drove?
IOW, the Jetta is more expensive, in an Apple-to-Apples comparison.
Also, is comparing a manual Jetta to the Prius fair?
I bet the automatic Jetta to be 15% or higher less efficient than a manual transmission.
Thank you for your comments. @markderail. We talked the price comparison thing and some of the other issues through pretty completely over at Prius Chat.
http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/58828-internet-poll-prius-vs-jetta-11.html#post819150
This was not a price comparison test.
It lost the price comparison test.
It lost the clean emission test.
It lost the MP$ test.
It lost the dB test.
Me think VW failed on this achievement. :-D
Tramp, as you know - since you were part of the conversation, we went over the whole price thing over at Prius Chat and, the facts are, that "who wins on price" depends on what options you ADD to the BASE models of both vehicles. As a BASE model to BASE model comparison, the TDI is less expensive. Prius fans argue for a different basis of comparison and options which is certainly their right. Depending on what options you throw in determines the outcome. The pricing is very close within a thousand either direction.
Currently, The TDI has the lowest emmissions of any DIESEL and the next generation will be in BIN 2/ TIER 5 SULEV standards. The TDI can also run on alternative fuels which totally changes the emissions profile.
But you already know all this because you talked about it with me over at Prius Chat.
Thanks again for your comments and let's continue the discussion.
Ed, as we said before, you cannot compare something with less option with something with more options. You may as well then compare the Jetta with the Yaris (diesel) and it will lose, but hey, they are both manual and both diesels. :)
To compare they have to have the same equipment: doing so the Jetta loses (again).
> Currently, The TDI has the lowest emmissions of any DIESEL
Currently camel lights have the lowest tar and nicotine rating, but smoking is bad for you.
Same for diesels: a diesel wil NEVER be as clean as e gas engine, even non hybrids.
Diesel is BAD for the environment. Green diesels = healthy cigarette.
> The TDI can also run on alternative fuels which totally changes the emissions profile.
1) it does NOT change the emissions profile - it still emits Co2 and acid rain.
2) So can the prius run on alcohol. Where is your point?
The discussion: Where is your point? Overjoicing that the Jetta did 2% better than the Prius, but diesel is 4% more expensive, diesel emits 10% more Co2 and 300% more acid rain? WOW.......
Why don't you tell future Jetta owners that every 60.000 miles they have to change the timing belt and that operation costs 1200$?
Oh, the Prius has an everlasting chain. +1.
Fuel prices are a moving target, too. I just paid $2.12 a gallon for diesel three days ago (in my 2005 Passat TDI sedan), and regular gas was $2.19. Prices change. My running mileage for the month is 40.9 MPG, by the way.
Recently we had a Jetta TDI advocate restart an old thread "2009 VW Jetta TDI Emissions Results In!" over at PriusChat. So we picked up the 2010 Prius, California Air Resources Board (CARB) executive order A-014-0657, to compare to the 2009 Jetta TDI executive order A-007-0271:
Jetta TDI :: 2010 Prius :: field
0.090 g/mi :: 0.010 g/mi :: NMOG or NMHC STD, UL
0.400 g/mi :: 0.040 g/mi :: CO, UL
0.050 g/mi :: 0.003 g/mi :: NOx, UL
0.030 g/mi :: 0.002 g/mi :: Hwy NOx, UL
$50 each :: $00 each :: CARB fine per vehicle
We found the TDI vehicles have at least 9 times the emissions per mile than the 2010 Prius. Apparently the diesels have larger, allowable emissions standards to meet than the Prius. The fine relates to some diagnostic capability that is needed.
So if the Jetta TDI is "clean," then the 2010 Prius must seem "immaculate."
We also checked with the EPA web site for user reported mileage:
Jetta TDI :: 2010 Prius
40.0 MPG (27 vehicles) :: 50.3 MPG (64 vehicles)
The results seem instructive.
Bob Wilson, Huntsville, AL
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